85: Celebrating Integrative Nurse Coaching- Karen Avino EdD, RN, AHN-BC, HWNC-BC

85: Celebrating Integrative Nurse Coaching: Karen Avino EdD, RN, AHN-BC, HWNC-BC Transcript

Nicole Vienneau  00:00

Welcome everyone, to the Integrative Nurse Coaches in ACTION! podcast. My name is Nicole Vienneau. I am your host, and it is so exciting because we are moving into season number five of the Integrative Nurse Coaches in ACTION! podcast. We’ve interviewed over 80 different Nurse Coaches of the world, specifically from the Integrative Nurse Coach Academy. 

And today we’re opening up season number five with a very special guest who has been on our podcast. But that was back in 2022, it was episode number 25 which, of course, I’m going to put in the show notes so you can review it. But we are welcoming Karen Avino back to our podcast. And Karen Avino is… Karen, tell us your exact title.

Karen Avino  00:58

I’m executive director of the Integrative Nurse Coach Academy, International Nurse Coach Association, and also we have a non profit, the Integrative Nurse Coaching Association, which is something that you’ll hear more about in the future. 

Nicole Vienneau  01:19

Awesome! So I am very happy to be sharing time and energy with you, Karen, and I know our listeners are very intrigued about what is it that we’re going to be talking about today. Especially having you on our podcast. So welcome, Karen.

Karen Avino  01:39

Thank you, Nicole. I’m very happy to be here, of course, with you.

Nicole Vienneau  01:42

Yes, and I love just having conversations with you and feeling inspired after each of them. So I know our listeners, of course, will also feel very inspired. So we do have to take a quick trip down history lane, because I’m sure a lot of our Nurses would love to know how you even started and connected with the Integrative Nurse Coach Academy. How did this all happen for you?

Karen Avino  02:09

Oh, gee. Well, let’s say that… I would say my whole Nursing career, which next year will be 50 years, which is, I’m totally amazed at, will… I’ve always been holistically focused, I would say. I started out in maternal child health, and that’s where I learned about, you know, at that time, we were doing Lamaze with moms, you know, which we were using guided imagery and relaxation and breathing and all of those, you know, pieces. 

And I would teach it. But it wasn’t until I went through that experience myself that I really felt the power of using those techniques, especially in a situation like that, where you’re, you know, having a baby and childbirth and all of that. 

And then went on to other things, like, as a lactation consultant, started to use herbs and cabbage leaves and music and all different components with moms to, you know, try to help them also feel more comfortable in their role with their new baby. 

So I was always holistically minded, and just continued my education in different specific techniques, topics, you know, things that I could use with patients. And then, of course, I found the International Nurse Coach Association. When it first started, I was from Cohort Two, and you know, once you experience something like that, you’re like, this is my tribe, because before, you felt alone. 

You felt alone in your beliefs and your values about what healthcare could be, and how Nursing could use interventions in a way that didn’t need a doctor’s order. We needed to expand our Nursing ability to be with people. You know, rather than just doing due. 

We really were practicing Nursing the way it’s supposed to be with being with people. So through that experience of taking the program, you know, you met more like minded people, and you know, just felt the love, really, that everyone shared with one another, and the support and the encouragement and the brainstorming and the expansion of what Nursing could be. 

So that’s where we are today, because it’s really become my passion. I, you know, went into education, and I, yes, I taught holistic Nursing for 20 years, but it still felt confined where there’s walls, you know, of what you can and you can’t do. I knew that we had to take it to the point where we are capable of making our own decisions through our critical decision making skills that we have. 

What is appropriate for this person or what is not. And so, you know, once we discovered that no, we can practice on our own and we could have an independent practice, that kind of changed the ball game for everybody.

Nicole Vienneau  02:19

Yeah. And when did you become the Executive Director of the Integrative Nurse Coach Academy? Yes, yes, it has. It has been a really nice journey, and we’ve been connected along the lines too, because I graduated in cohort number four, and you graduated in cohort number two, and then we’ve been colleagues and friends ever since then. 

Karen Avino  05:35

In 2020. Yes, 2020, you know, I was working alongside Barbara Dossey and Susan Luck. And you know, at that time they knew that, you know, a new group needed to come in and take it further than they had. And so I was ready for the challenge, you know, along with Ronald Kanka, who is a business partner, who’s the director of business operations. 

And now we also have Carly Mertz, who is our Nurse planner and course coordinator, you know, for the program. And so it’s growing, it’s definitely growing, and lots of very skilled, really talented faculty who have joined us along on this, on this journey. So it’s been a really nice experience since then, yeah. That’s right. That’s right. In other programs too, yes.

Nicole Vienneau  06:37

Yes, yes.

Karen Avino  06:38

So, in the five years, you know, we’ve really grown as a team, I would call it, because people really need to, you know, or want to, and are really sharing their skills and expertise and ideas. And it’s wonderful to be creative and not have to be overseen again and stop through, you know, certain walls that sometimes are put up in other places. So it’s been great for that reason.

Nicole Vienneau  07:35

Well and we know that Nurses are supposed to be functioning to the highest level of their education, degrees, certifications, and Nurse Coaching allows and creates a space for us to be able to do that through the holistic Nursing lens and then expanding upon our education. 

And like you said, you know, you took numerous courses, numerous education to advance your skills and elevate what you’re doing on a daily basis, to be able to be in this position of running this organization and bringing your skills and gifts to other Nurses and expanding Nurse Coaching as a whole. 

Karen Avino  08:21

Very well said. That’s right, yeah, yeah. You know, Nurse Coaching just gives you a framework to be able to deliver. Like, years ago, when I, you know, would take all different kinds of, let’s call them complimentary courses, and learn things, if someone would call me for, you know, I’d like to see you. 

And I was, you know, faculty at the university, like I said, and I would get calls from the public because I somehow, you know, was known in that venue there, and they’d like to see me for a session. And I’d have to explain what I did and all the different techniques I did, and what each one cost and it wasn’t until I found Integrative Nurse Coaching, that became my framework to be able to deliver those things. 

So now my elevator speech is I’m an Integrative Nurse Coach, right, who practices complimentary therapies, and together, we co-create a plan for your healing experience. And so when people come in, it’s really, you know, the client’s choice once we review what might be possible for them. 

So in the middle of my session, they might jump up on my massage table and have a Reiki session, or I might pull out my computer and we do some Heart Math breathing. Or we might, you know, and of course, you know, you always have nice smelling, aroma therapy going. You’re creating an environment for healing and reflection. 

And that’s what we are, I think, are missing a lot of in healthcare is that we don’t have anybody that’s really being with clients. They’re doing to clients. And the difference that holistic Nurses and Nurse Coaches and Nurses, just that’s the core of who we are really and that’s what gives us the most joy and passion in our jobs. 

And so when Nurses come to the program, they’re like, eyes wide open, and they’re like, this is who I believe I am, and now I know how to deliver that care. So, yeah.

Nicole Vienneau  10:33

Yeah. I was really appreciating the environment in which Nurse Coaches really create. So no longer is it a sterile doctor’s office with butcher paper on a table and that kind of environment— no plants, white walls. Nurse Coaches are creating environments of healing, which include the colors on the wall to plants to music in the background to comfortable chairs and like you say, being with someone is way different than doing stuff to someone. 

You know, now we’re in a conversation where we’re giving and receiving from the client. The client is guiding us, instead of us demanding and telling, and it’s just such a different way of allowance, not only for our patients, but also for us as practitioners, and allowing ourselves to be also immersed in this very healing space as well. We’re part of the space. We’re an important part of this space. 

So it’s just, I like, I loved, I mean, I’m looking at your background. I know it’s just a picture background, but it’s like, well, no, I mean, this is what we’re talking about, something that is comfortable and welcoming and feels like you’re coming home instead of going to get stuff done to you.

Karen Avino  12:02

Exactly, exactly. Just, you know, through the years, I, you know, take this way back where in Nursing school I was taught therapeutic touch, but then when I went out into practice, it was like nobody was using it, and you were almost afraid to introduce something new, so it’s kind of lost. 

So you don’t have those role models of those behaviors back then. There’s more now, because Nurse Coaches are now everywhere. I mean, we are global. This is no longer just an isolated, regional, you know, country specific thing that we’re doing. 

So to me, when I see people from Saudi Arabia and Japan and Italy and, you know, New Zealand and all the other countries that we have students in, it means that we all really, as Nurses, understand the value of those pieces that we can bring, and that’s what gives people passion to continue on in Nursing. 

It’s very sad when I start to hear people talk about, you know, I’m thinking of leaving Nursing, and I’ll get those phone calls, and I’ll say, we need to explore this together, because you’re only really aware of perhaps hospital Nursing or what that looks like. 

And that may be right for some people, and that’s fine, but you have options and you have opportunities, and I don’t think we do enough of that discussion as a whole with Nurses, helping them to understand what their opportunities really are. I think Nursing is wide open for different kinds of experiences and different kinds of practice that you can do. So it’s not just, you know, again, following orders.

Nicole Vienneau  14:04

Right. Yes, right, not just following orders. And in addition, we’re also collaborative with those practitioners who may be the ones who give some orders, but we’re also part of the piece of the bigger picture and puzzle. 

Karen Avino  14:21

A bigger picture, that’s right. We’re absolutely the larger picture to that. And the, you know, the collaboration with other professions too, and like wellness centers, for instance, you know, there’s nothing better than having an inter-professional collaboration going, because you can’t be all to everyone. 

And there’s not like one therapy that everyone should have, or there’s not one… but the Nurse Coach can help facilitate that coordination of services, if you will, to people and or educate them even on what the possibilities are for them, and then they’re more willing to, you know, try other things.

Nicole Vienneau  15:09

Yeah, then the patient and the client become part of the conversation and can help with what makes their vision of their health and wellness a bigger priority for them. It elevates it, because now they’re part of the discussion.

Karen Avino  15:22

Yeah, that’s right, that’s right.

Nicole Vienneau  15:26

We could talk about this all day, I know. 

Karen Avino  15:28

I know. There’s lots. 

Nicole Vienneau  15:31

There is lots, there is lots. So I was hoping that we might highlight some of the successes and some of the celebrations that INCA has experienced in the time since we last interviewed you, which was in 2022, you know, that’s a few years now. So maybe in the past year, some things that you’d like to highlight and celebrate.

Karen Avino  15:55

Well, as you know, the program, you know, first began, it was live, you know, and on site. And while that’s an awesome experience, we also know that, you know, COVID hit us, and it just… it was great timing with that, because we knew that we needed, in order to expand geographically, we also had to be able to develop a course that was meaningful online. 

And so the program went online in 2020 and has expanded greatly in numbers with Nurses. We have organizations who are sending us, you know, a group of Nurses. We have organizations contacting us who, because of the suffering of Nurses and what they have experienced, and continue to experience— moral injury, and you know, they don’t believe actually in what they’re doing anymore in certain settings, that our program not only teaches you Nurse Coaching, but it also takes the Nurse on the journey of self development. 

And when we say journey, you know the trend word out there is well being, right? So well being, we want Nurses, everyone to feel like they are in the state of well being, well we know that well being is really static. It’s like in the present moment, I’m feeling well, whereas really, self development is about well becoming, because it’s a much longer journey of… and never ending, a never ending journey of well becoming, right? 

That always has to kind of be a major part of who we are and what we do, because without that experience and being able to really develop ourselves, we can’t sit with the suffering of others and really do a meaningful job with them, or take on the suffering ourselves, or, you know, all of those pieces. 

So it’s about helping the Nurse to recover, repair, rejuvenate, re-energize, and say, this is who I am, and this is how I want to practice. You have a choice in your Nursing practice, but it’s understanding what it is and envisioning it and creating it, right, to reach your destiny for what that might look like, and that’s what the program helps you do. 

Of course, we also do specialty programs which extends the Nurses’ education to be able to deliver different kinds of complimentary therapies and education, or just have the knowledge about different topics that are trending today. 

You know, we have cannabis Nursing because we know that people are using it, and it’s not we’re selling it, not we’re, you know, promoting it, but we’re educating, you know, patients on that and what it is. We will have a new course this year on psychedelics, because that is also becoming a trending treatment, you know, for different disease processes, if you will. 

And so we need to understand it, and be able to speak to it and what it is. So we do a lot of different kinds of programs that really can advance the Nurses, Nurse Coaches’ practice to what they can offer clients. 

Nicole Vienneau  19:36

Yes, and just for our listeners, as a reminder that we do have some past episodes that speak to these topics, in particular cannabis Nursing, use of psilocybin, and what some of our graduates are doing in practice. So you can look back, see some very recent episodes of Integrative Nurse Coaches in ACTION! for some of that information. And then, of course, I’ll drop in some links too, with links to these particular specialty programs as well. So you can just click on those, and you can see what these programs are about, if they’re peaking your interest right now. 

Karen Avino  20:12

Yeah, that’s great.

Nicole Vienneau  20:13

Yeah. And so, okay, so in 2024 I would like to know your thoughts about, like, some of the celebrations from 2024.

Karen Avino  20:23

Oh, 2024 brought another opportunity for us, where we had a live symposium in Miami, Florida, which was wonderful, where, you know, lots of Nurses came together, and we explored topics similar to that together to understand it. 

Talked about how to advance Nurse Coaching, what Nurse Coaches need in order to develop that confidence, right, and be comfortable again speaking the language of Nurse Coaching, which match, really, their values and their belief systems. 

So if you can speak the language to people that you come across or in your workplace or in the leadership team, and help them to understand what a Nurse Coach could do, not only for patients individually, but for other Nurses, for the organization as a whole. 

I mean, we had an organization contact us, and, yeah, we did one days for them where, you know, the Nurses were able to explore this and identify who the champions were. The idea is to put them through the program so that then they will be able to… it’s like a trainer, kind of a program. 

They’ll be able to bring this to Nurse orientation and become the philosophy for practice within the organization. They want to put board certified Nurse Coaches on the floor with the new Nurses, right? Because not only are they helping them implement it into patient care, but they’re helping the Nurse themselves, you know, in their again, in their self development. 

Because without that, we’re seeing Nurses who leave at that 24… actually it’s actually reduced now— used to be at that 24 month mark, Nurses will make a decision, are they saying in Nursing or not? Well, now it’s actually much earlier than that, and we were having, because of the pandemic, full floors of all brand new Nurses, including the Nurse manager. 

And, you know, needless to say, Nurses learn on the job a lot of really, what they need, you know, to practice, and so they weren’t getting that. So not only in patient care, but in this is also for the Nurses and staff, you know, within organizations. So there’s been a lot of change that way and recognition. 

So it’s the recognition of the organizations who are saying, you know, okay, you know, we’re going to bring in a mental health organization and Nurses can sign up for sessions with a therapist. It’s more than that. It’s about the self development and the self growth of the Nurse. 

We want to be able to bring that passion back into their Nursing practice, practice how they love. We want to be able to allow the Nurse to really, you know, feel happy and joy where she is now. So, you know, this is one of the things that Nurse Coaching can do for people.

Nicole Vienneau  23:46

Yes, so we… I think the symposium was three days or two days. I can’t even remember. 

Karen Avino  23:52

It was two and a half days. 

Nicole Vienneau  23:54

Two and a half days, that’s right, yes, two and a half days. And we got to meet Nurses from all over the country, and different styles of Nurses all coming together and like you say, learning to speak the language with each other, so that we feel confident when we’re out in the world, that we can be using shared language, shared culture in a way, to, you know, bring these concepts and ideas to the spaces that we’re living and working in. 

Listeners, if you want to listen to some amazingly inspiring words from attendees of the conference, the symposium, the Integrative Nurse Coach symposium, episode number 72 and 73 are so good, like they’re just real, live, raw voices of our graduates, integrative Nurse Coaches of the world. 

Or even Nurses who were just coming to explore and see what is this, and realizing this is my… these are my people. These are my people. And how uplifted you’ll feel after listening to those two particular podcasts, specifically. 

Karen Avino  25:10

And, you know, so we have people who are asking for more, you know. And you know, our goal is to try to meet the needs of, you know, Nurses out there. So we, yes, we’re thinking about how we can come together, live, again. One of the things that we have going soon in March is a… it’s called the Holistic Holiday at Sea, and it is a cruise. 

We are collaborating with another group, a holistic minded group, who is, you know, actually on the cruise with us. And you know, about plant based eating, and all of those holistic topics of interest. 

You know, how to… even, like a lot of physicians who are into functional medicine, you know, into lifestyle medicine, a lot of all variety, again, of different practitioners that are on there, doing talks, and including Nurses. And so we’ll see how that goes, together at sea. And then, of course, talking about, you know, the opportunity to do some self care retreats for Nurses also.

Nicole Vienneau  26:24

Yes. So we will, listeners, drop in the link for the Holistic Holiday at Sea. Can people still register for that, Karen? 

Karen Avino  26:32

Yes, they can. They can. And, of course, there’s contact hours for Nurses also, yeah. So it should be a great experience. We’re, you know, in the Caribbean.

Nicole Vienneau  26:43

Right! I mean, how can that not be a good experience?

Karen Avino  26:46

How can that not be good? Yeah. Especially I’m in the mid Atlantic region right now, where it’s ice cold. I think it’s the North Pole, so I’d rather be there now.

Nicole Vienneau  26:56

Well, and then, you know, I know that the food will be excellent. And, you know, just the whole self care concept, bringing that into being on a cruise, but with like minded voices and learning and shared time with each other.

Karen Avino  27:13

Yeah, so there’s an opportunity to eat vegan the whole time that you’re there, but you don’t have to, but it’s almost like a good opportunity, if you were thinking of plant based, to switch over, because you’ll have a whole week of that.

Nicole Vienneau  27:32

And then some discussion about maybe in the future, bringing some in-person connections, maybe at different locations through the country, or…?

Karen Avino  27:44

Yes, well, we have a, you know, what we’re doing right now is in the planning stages. And we actually have our first meeting in February, where our alumni, you know, group, will come together as a greater whole, and we’ll discuss the needs and what you know they would like to see. 

I mean, we can start, certainly, with regional meetings, where Nurses in a region can come together, and that’s wonderful, because that support system is what Nurses need, because a lot of times they don’t find that support where they are, and they want to be able to bounce off ideas, continue with perhaps Coaching for themselves, you know, with each other. 

So I think that that’s something that they’re going to really like. So the alumni expansion is definitely in the works.

Nicole Vienneau  28:40

Oh, very good, yes. And all our graduates are invited to those types of meetings, right? 

Karen Avino  28:46

I think there’s about 100 alumni who have signed up for this meeting already. So that’s pretty cool, although we have 1000s. But it’s, you know, it’s a good start. That’s right.

Nicole Vienneau  28:57

Yeah, it is a good start. And we, you know, we have to remember that people could be busy at that time or didn’t know about it. There’s so many factors that go into these types of things.

Karen Avino  29:06

Well, it will continue. Yeah. To grow.

Nicole Vienneau  29:09

That’s great. That’s great. So that’s the Alumni Connection Program.

Karen Avino  29:14

Yeah. Alumni Program, yeah. 

Nicole Vienneau  29:16

Okay. What other fun things are up and coming?

Karen Avino  29:21

Oh, let’s see, we’re rewriting the textbook, so that will definitely be out this year. And it’s exciting because the original textbook, it was so wonderful. It has great information in it and all of that. But certainly our views have expanded. And so, you know, there’ll be definitely an expansion piece to it that, you know, will help the Nurses of today, you know, understand that. And the other… let’s see, okay, the new book. 

Oh, you know, I’ve been on the journey of CPT code recognition for Nurse Coaches. One of the big stumbling blocks is that insurance companies typically do not credential non advanced practice people, so helping them to understand the role of the RN in, you know, being able to deliver Coaching services. And the difference between a Nurse Coach versus a lay Coach is huge. 

People don’t really understand the difference. I mean, all the education, the training, the experience that Nurses have really put us at a different level of Coaching from others. Yes, we can do wellness Coaching, but we do so much more than that. We’re the true health Coaches. 

And so the CPT code recognition is one that, because it’s run by the ANA, and you know, physicians believe— some physicians too believe that they’re doing it, but not doing it quite like we would do as Nurse Coaches. And we have to help them to understand the difference, although a lot of them are bringing in Nurse Coaches, because there’s value based medicine a lot of places. 

And so the better outcomes that they can get with their clients, the more money they receive at the end of the year, right, from particular insurance companies. So there is a financial incentive to them to improve health outcomes. And certainly that’s the role that we can help them with, is to improve the health outcomes. 

So the CPT codes are something also that, you know, we need to strategize and say, well, how can we bill? If we team up, perhaps, with an advanced practice Nurse, we develop a wellness center so all of the insurance goes through that practitioner. Those are opportunities for being able to bill insurance. 

Now, the thing with billing insurance, of course, is, you know, there’s a limited reimbursement with that, and so we go through that whole process of exploring that in the course— what’s best for that Nurse Coach in that moment? Because there’s… it’s not as cut and dry as, oh, I’m going to send the insurance company a bill. 

You know, there’s a lot more to it. Will you get reimbursed? Are you keeping the proper records? You know, that if they come in to do an audit, you’re going to be successful with that audit, or they’re going to ask for money back. 

So there’s a lot of different things to consider with that, and so it does require exploration, and really, you know, discovery of how we can best move Nurse Coaching forward in a way that heightens our practice, you know, brings us as professional Nurse Coaches, really into the realm of healthcare delivery. 

I mean, think about it, Nurses are not a reimbursable you know… we’re a cost center, not a profit center in the hospital, right? And so people tend to think that in the beginning, that Nurses cannot be reimbursed for their services, but that’s not true. So we need to change that look, and that you know at how people look at Nurses and their capabilities.

Nicole Vienneau  33:41

I know that you were a big voice in bringing this to the ANA a few years ago. I just wanted to just say, Holy moly. That was a big step. I mean, you had to go to the ANA…

Karen Avino  33:59

Twice. I went before them twice. Yeah.  

Nicole Vienneau  34:02

Thank you.

Karen Avino 34:02

Mm-hmm. So we need to be advocates as Nurses for what we believe, and we know that we have, you know, we have the evidence to be able to support what it is we can do. We just have to really be able to continue our journey of talking about it. I’m not willing to take a no and walk away and never go back. 

So I’m still on that journey. I’m trying to figure out, you know, number one, we know that this isn’t a quick process of getting through this, right? This is, again, one of those long trajectories of acceptance, if you will. 

But we also have an opportunity to be able to figure out how we can, right now, start right now, be able to get in that space, and then we’ll be able to collect more data, we’ll be able to really help support, you know, that process for us.

 

Nicole Vienneau  35:06

So what would be like a step that a Nurse Coach could take in their day to day life to help support that process?

Karen Avino  35:14

Well, another initiative we’re working on is to create a repository for outcomes. So that will be released, you know, when it’s ready, where we’re going to start to collect the data from the Nurse Coach sessions, and so that we can then try to make sense out of the outcomes and be able to use as evidence to support our you know, our recognition, really. 

So that’s another thing you know, with that we need more research, specific to that. Our research often is kind of… it doesn’t always, you know, it might just say Coaching. It might not say Nurse Coaching, because they use a variety, some organizations use a variety of Coaches. 

And they’re collecting data on all of that, but we need Nursing specific Coaching outcomes to be able to really, you know, drill down and be able to use that to help support our advocacy, I would say.

Nicole Vienneau  36:18

Well, and I’m thinking maybe a step that Nurse Coaches could do on a day to day basis is really, really being clear about the outcomes that they are creating with their clients. You know, what are those outcomes? How can we articulate those outcomes and seeing them for what they really are? 

Because I think a lot of Nurses just think, oh, it’s just part of the process and you know. But no, actually, yeah, you’re a part of the process of that, but without our skill, without our presence and our knowledge bases, those clients could not have taken the step on their own. That’s why we are of service with them. 

So I think recognizing our very big contributions with our patients, and not stepping back on, you know, and not taking ownership of them, because we are really affecting patients and clients, our communities, in big ways, and yet our Nursing culture can kind of hush hush some of that. 

So maybe a step for our listeners is to really stand up, and maybe not stand up at first, but being clear about the outcomes that you are really contributing to for your patients, your clients, your communities, and for yourself, all of that. 

Karen Avino  37:43

That’s right, yeah, without, you know, again, finding your voice, finding your language, being comfortable with it, being confident with it, that’s what’s going to make the difference. You know, we still like you know, when Nurses first come in, they’ll often be very… I’m going to use the word quiet, you know, because they have not been an advocate for themselves in the past. 

And here we’re encouraging that and teaching that and speaking it. And you know, until they feel that level of confidence and really understand what they can bring they tend to sit back. I mean, if you look at research, and this is, you know, been for years— Nursing, right? 

You know, Nurses careers are interrupted often by, you know, family that may happen along the way. And whereas men don’t have that interruption in their career journey, Nurses do. So Nurses have, you know… and it’s women in general, if you will. 

And there’s a lot of male Nurses, and I’m not saying anything against that, but often their career is not interrupted by those other components, but Nurses and women in general, and that’s kind of across the board with all careers, that they really take on a lot more responsibility overall. 

And so are they looking at this as a job, you know, and maybe looking at it as a job in a particular part of your, you know, your career timeline might be right for you in the moment. And I’m not saying everybody needs to be out there, rah, rah, you know, but you still can… you can still speak the language and be able to articulate it to your colleagues and to your leadership where you are— what’s needed for Nursing. 

I mean, everybody, you know, we all need jobs, we all need benefits. We all need, you know, good money. And so it’s not everybody’s ability to be able to do a private practice, perhaps, themselves, because you know that there’s ebbs and flows with that, you know, cash flow, all of those things, and it takes a lot of time to build up. 

So we have a lot of Nurses who, you know, keep their jobs, start in the present moment where they are. We have people who are working with the employee health departments in their hospitals. And, you know, seeing all the Nurses that come in with burnout and anxiety and depression and or doing group Coaching classes on self care in the facility with Nurses. 

So there’s a lot that Nurses can do where they are. They can work with specific patient populations, diabetics or, you know, cardiology or whatever it is. So you’re bringing your specialty into that Coaching experience, and then, or, you know, they may slowly cut back their hours in this other job while they’re building up their private practice. 

But it’s not necessary to do that. A lot of people think this is not for me, because I don’t, you know, I’m not a business person. And, no, we were not educated in business, but a lot of us have grown to learn more about that, or have had experiences, perhaps at the leadership level, where we’ve gained experience in business and understanding of the processes that we could then help each other, you know, grow forward in that. 

Nicole Vienneau  41:24

And I think just in general, with Nurses coming into the Integrative Nurse Coach Academy, their certificate program, that’s that parallel of learning the concepts of Coaching and then the professional and personal development is both that you receive. 

You don’t have to, you could stay in the same role, but you’re going to… you’re going to function differently in that exact same role, just because of taking the program. You know, function in a way that can align more with who you are and your authentic being and why you even started… chose to be a Nurse. 

I mean, it just shifts your thinking, shifts the way you’re showing up, shifts the way you handle and discuss with your colleagues, and then how much patience and love you can give back to yourself as a Nurse as well. 

Karen Avino  42:18

I have Nurses who say to me, I realize I’ve changed my thought process, my language with my colleagues at work. Whereas we want that to happen, we want to shift from negative talk to positive talk, right? So without that love, passion, joy in your job, right, it’s harder to do and to achieve. 

So this is what that brings. It can bring a shift, really, in attitudes and because now you love what you’re doing, you feel good about what you’re doing. That’s what it is. You know. That’s why Nurses experience moral injury, because it’s really going against their values and belief systems. 

And so now, with this, they feel hopeful. And, you know, giving people hope for the future, for, you know, their jobs and whatnot, is what you want. You don’t want them looking for where’s the grass greener on the other side? You want them to stay where they are and help them grow in that thought.

Nicole Vienneau  43:31

Yeah, bloom where you’re planted.

Karen Avino  43:33

There you go. 

Nicole Vienneau  43:34

That’s the thing that I want, that I know a lot of people want, to just stay where they are and help shift your concepts, your perception of that. Okay, what else do we need to touch on? 

Karen Avino  43:49

Well, the other thing is, you know, Nurses can be… really, we have Nurse Coach leaders. That’s what I feel we can redevelop, and what people can feel when they graduate, because Nurses should be leading wellness with their organizations. They should be the chief wellness officer, because that’s the core of their practice. 

So that’s another thing that we’re working on, is how to heighten that, so that Nurses now can be really guiding that within the organizations, rather than another profession that’s not the core of their practice, who actually has limited knowledge, more limited knowledge in that way.

Nicole Vienneau  44:39

Yes. I think you had also mentioned in a past conversation that some of the program is going to be revised a little bit coming moving forward. 

Karen Avino  44:49

Oh yeah, yeah, a lot. You know, different philosophies, bringing in different methods of helping. Our goal is to help people transform, and how does transformation happen? And so we have ideas on that, and also to give people then the option to be able to, you know, what are they most interested in? 

Is it private practice, or is it integration in organizations? I want people to have a tangible product when they leave that they can then take the step the next day and right away begin to implement Nurse Coaching, whether it’s, again, in a private practice or it’s in their present organization. 

And so with that support and providing ongoing support to be able to do that longer term, will actually ensure the success of the Nurses. And we all sit for certification. There’s a national certification in Nurse Coaching, there’s a national certification as a holistic Nurse, and if you take both, then your title changes to Health and Wellness Nurse Coach – Board Certified. 

So, you know, we practice with that holistic philosophy, and we’re bringing in the Nurse Coach skills and leadership into and combining it into this beautiful praxis, or practice of Nurses. So there’s a lot of opportunities for people in different ways now really, that we understand that Nurse Coaching can help.

Nicole Vienneau  46:32

Yes, well, wonderful. Well, we’ll look forward to seeing what these revisions are and how we can support our communities and newer Nurses coming into the Integrative Nurse Coach Academy certificate program, and how the program and Nurse Coaching is going to evolve because of this.

Karen Avino  46:52

And I love to hear from people too. You know what their needs are, and so we did do, you know, a very large alumni survey, got lots of feedback, which is great, but, you know, that’s what happens, is Nurse Coaches come along and say, I want more and I need to learn about this now, because this is out there. So, you know, we listen and we collaborate with the specialists and experts in those particular topics to bring the best experience that we can. 

Nicole Vienneau  47:24

Wonderful. Yes, lots has happened in the past couple years, and exciting things in the future, right? And things take time. You know, it’s not like just bam, changes happen, right? So we look forward to following along on the journey as we are all moving ourselves forward. 

And then also knowing that, you know, we’re alumni of this amazing program that has shifted the way we are showing… us Nurses, I’m speaking for myself right now, how I show up in the world, you know. And I want to be able to support your journey, and I know our listeners do too. So, yeah, so Karen, how can people reach out to you? Is there a best way to do that?

Karen Avino  48:10

Oh, absolutely. I mean, I’m happy for people to contact me directly. kavino@inursecoach.com. I’m happy for people who want to… I mean, you can set up a time to talk with one of our admission specialists about the programs themselves. They actually sometimes know more than I know about the program themselves. 

But, you know, I think that there’s many different ways to interact with us. You know, the more… that’s why the Alumni Connection is going to be so critical, because that we can bring groups of Nurses geographically together, who can really develop a close knit collaboration and working together and support. 

And maybe they’ll develop a wellness center together, and maybe they’ll bring an advanced practice Nurse. So we have Nurses at all levels. I mean, I just want that to be clear is, you know, we have Nurse anesthetists, and we have, you know, Nurse practitioners and all kinds of Nurses who feel and know that this is the right way to really practice, as well, of course, as registered Nurses. 

So it’s a wide spectrum of people who can work together, collaborate and really develop something beautiful.

Nicole Vienneau  49:31

Yes, well, wonderful. I will be putting in a lot of links into today’s podcast notes, so please have a look at our notes and then see what has called to you today that maybe you would like to explore a little bit more, or reach out to a colleague that’s you know is in your area, or if you’re seeing someone on social media doing something that you really are connecting with is to just send a message and say, hey, I noticed this, and let’s collaborate. 

Let’s come together. That’s how we move things forward. And of course, so many opportunities within the Integrative Nurse Coach Academy to advance your knowledge and skills and also connect at the Alumni level as well. So Karen, thank you so so much for being with us today and sharing all the goods on what’s coming up, some celebrations of things in the past as well. 

And we thank you so much for your time. But before we go, I will say we do need to know what is on your heart that you would like to share with us today? So maybe a couple breaths and see what comes up.

Karen Avino  50:45

So one, of course, one of the things is, you know, there’s so much excitement, to be honest, like I feel very excited when I talk about Nurse Coaching and the opportunities for growth for Nurses. And we do this because we believe in Nursing, and we love Nursing, and again, we want Nurses to find their voice and be comfortable speaking of what their profession is and what they can bring to the table for clients. 

So you know, it’s all about finding yourself, finding your love, finding your passion, using your voice. Be strong. One of the things that Barbara Dossey, you know, always, always told us was a strong back, but a soft front, you know. 

So we are always open. Our hearts are open to each other, you know, for listening and acceptance and understanding and trying to keep that strong back, because that’s our… that’s what we believe and what our values are, and we’re not afraid to speak it. 

Nicole Vienneau  51:59

Yes. Thank you.

Karen Avino  52:03

Thank you, Nicole.