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  • Ep3: How to Embrace Self-Care as Soul-Care- Lindsay Johnson, MSN, RN, NC-BC
integrative nurse coaches in action

Integrative Nurse Coaches in ACTION

Ep3: How to Embrace Self-Care as Soul-Care- Lindsay Johnson, MSN, RN, NC-BC

Podcast Highlights

Lindsay Johnson, MSN, RN, NC-BC Highlights

self-care “I see Nurse Coaching, as an expanded view of health care in a more integrative sense and we are impacted by a complex dynamic of things rather than just little things.” Lindsay Johnson

  • Embracing self-care as soul-care can shift the way you care for yourself, without caring about yourself, and this is very important in times when one feels self-critical, or in self-doubt.  Caring for yourself without caring about yourself oftentimes allows self-love.
  • A Registered Nurse’s career is a continuous evolution through employment, connections, business, personal achievements and life.
  • One of the perks of being a Registered Nurse, is that they can be placed into any role and they will be successful in it.
  • Nurse Coaching promotes health systematically and addresses the physical yes, but also the other sides of health and wellness, like mental health, emotional health, spiritual health.
  • Health is impacted by our communities, healthcare access, access to healthy food and water.
  • How being ‘chased by a virus we can’t see’ affects our health by living in a constant level of increased stress.  Nurse Coaches help clients and communities find ways to tackle stress in meaningful ways.
  • How helping clients find Food Freedom through Whole 30 Coaching accesses a deeper view of self-awareness and less restrictive views about eating.  Using Food and the Whole 30 System accesses self-awareness and link the awareness to food behaviors, ideas and habits.

Lindsay’s Top ‘Self-Care as Soul-Care’ Practices

  • Get enough restful sleep and go to bed early.
  • Move your body every day through yoga, Peloton biking, or a hike.
  • Eat food that makes you happy, whether its chocolate or a Whole 30 meal.
  • Access emotional and mental health through counseling and self- work.
  • Release feelings of guilt for needing and doing self-care practices.
  • Believe in your worth.
  • Set boundaries.

Tips for Nurse Coaches and Healthcare Practitioners

  • Set boundaries.
  • Find what speaks to you and follow that.
  • Sometimes creating a space for what you need help in, can be both a source of support and a source of revenue.
  • Sometimes you will fail, but you learn so much in trying. So, give that vision, that thing you want to see happen, a try!

Burned Out! 8 Essential Resiliency Strategies for Difficult Times

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Lindsay Johnson

MSN, RN, NC-BC

Integrative Nurse Coach™ Academy Faculty and Nurse Leader

Catalina Wellness

I am Faculty with the Integrative Nurse Coach™ Academy and a board certified nurse coach, specializing in stress management, burnout/trauma, somatic practices, and motherhood. I’m also a Whole30 Certified Coach and intermediate somatic experiencing student. I run a private coaching practice called Catalina Wellness, and have been spending the majority of the pandemic caring for my two little girls.

LJohnson@inursecoach.com

Podcast Transcript

Integrative Nurse Coaches in ACTION!- Episode 3 – Lindsay Johnson

Nicole Vienneau 

Welcome everyone to Integrative Nurse Coaches in ACTION! podcast. My name is Nicole Vienneau, your host, and I am so thrilled to invite Lindsay Johnson, from Catalina Wellness onto our program today.

Lindsay Johnson 

Thanks for having me, Nicole,

Nicole Vienneau 

Very happy to have you here. And we are excited to talk a little bit about your vision of Nurse Coaching, what coaching is, and some of the fun that you’re having within your programs.  And your vision of where you see yourself fitting into the Nurse Coaching world and into healthcare in general, and just opening up eyes for all to understand what Nurse Coaches are doing in the world.

So, let’s start off with a little bit of basics, like, how did you get into Nursing?

Lindsay Johnson 

Oh, and going back far. Okay, I got into Nursing, probably because I had a grandmother, who grew up in the Netherlands and she was a nurse, and she delivered babies during World War Two, and ended up immigrating over here to America. And so that was always kind of stuck in my head.

But I’d grown up wanting to be a doctor. And then I got a 33% on a physics test. And so, I was also taking at the same time, a course about health professions. And the person who was teaching the course was a nurse. And I was starting to realize at that time that the physician route wasn’t going to be for me. And so, I decided to switch my major to pre-Nursing and didn’t really look back since. So, I started out. I went to the University of Arizona, got into their Nursing program. And here I am.

Nicole Vienneau 

Go cats go cats!

So, it sounds like you had a few Nursing role models in your life.

Lindsay Johnson 

Yes, I don’t think she passed away before I became a nurse. She had dementia. She had Alzheimer’s. Around the same time that I switched my major. But yes, I had her as a role model. Of course, it was a very different Nursing world when she was practicing. So yeah, definitely a lot came from her.

Nicole Vienneau 

Yeah. And inspiration from the past. Right.  And then, of course, another role model when you were in school and meeting another Nurse who was working in professional development.

Lindsay Johnson 

Yes!  I don’t even remember her name. I wish I did, because that really did have a big impact on me. Yeah, yeah. Awesome. Seeing how I could fit myself into health and health care beyond what I thought was, you know, expected of me, perhaps.

Nicole Vienneau 

Right, right. Right. And so I know you have a vast background in Nursing. Tell us a little bit about your background experience within Nursing.

Lindsay Johnson 

Yeah, I graduated from the U of A and like I said, and went straight into the cardiac ICU, cardiothoracic care unit that was probably the highest acuity in the south in southwest Arizona, started working with balloon pumps and was trained in case recoveries from cabbages and valve replacements, and then I was trained in ECMO.

And then I got burned out, of course, because that’s what happens very often in those kinds of settings, a lot of a lot of deaths, and it was a very difficult job.

And so, I was about to quit that hospital in general, when I ran across something called Nurse Coaching. And I had just started my master’s program, and someone named Nicole Vienneau was a Nurse Coach in my program. So, I was like, what is this? What is this Nurse Coaching thing?

I applied for a position at an upscale health spa here in Tucson, I got the position. And then that same week I had a mentor call me and say, “No, don’t leave, there’s a position for you in infection prevention’.

I decided to stay and do the infection prevention thing, which was great. I really appreciated the eight to four position, it felt it felt good to be able to take care of myself and do something a little bit different. But then, almost about a year in, another person in the hospital was like, ‘come work with me. You’re about to graduate with your master’s degree, come work with me in professional practice’.

And so, since I didn’t have a huge passion for infection prevention, and the professional practice position, really reflected a lot of what I was really interested in, you know, taking care of nurses taking care of their burnout, but also providing support in their career aspirations and their professional practice. I was like, heck, yes. Take me. And so, I started working with her, which was wonderful.

It was at the time, I thought, my dream job. And I was working a lot with shared leadership councils, across the hospital, and quality improvement projects. And it really felt like it fit in with my master’s degree as well. The clinical systems leadership. And so that was great. And then since we had been recently acquired by a bigger sister hospital system, I came back from maternity leave, and my job was reorganized.

I was still in professional practice, but I ended up doing a lot of data entry for NDNQI.  And I could work from home, which was probably a very good thing for me at that time, I had a very brand-new baby. And soon after that, I became pregnant again with my second kid.

But the Nurse Coaching thing never left. That idea never really left me.

And so I made the decision after my second child was born, to leave that organization. Finally, after about, I think it was about 10 years of Nursing and 11 years of being involved with that organization, I went to Fort Lauderdale, and learned how to be Nurse Coach.

And so here I am, I started my own business over the past couple of years trying to build that up and learning as I go how to be a Nurse entrepreneur. So, it’s been quite the adventure ever since. Wow.

Nicole Vienneau

Absolutely, and an adventure. You know, from your wanting first to be a physician and then deciding that was not going to be for you and then getting your Bachelor of Science in Nursing and then moving into getting your master’s in Nursing and having so much opportunity. You know, it’s kind of like plan A plan B Plan C plan, and then finding Nurse Coaching and then moving into a completely different role as an entrepreneur.

Lindsay Johnson 

Completely different. Yeah. And it feels like life continues to go in that plan E direction, right?

Nicole Vienneau 

I think one of the beauties of Nursing is that there are so many opportunities and possibilities for us. And today, we are talking about Nurse Coaching. So, tell me a little bit about your definition of what Nurse Coaching is.

Lindsay Johnson 

Well, I went into Nurse Coaching because it was more along the lines of health promotion, rather than what I did. When I got out of Nursing school it was the disease management part of health care, right?

I wanted to work on the health care side of healthcare. So Nurse Coaching to me is really promoting health systematically. And I think we can often get really wrapped up in health and wellness as certain choices that we make for our bodies. You know, nutrition movement. And we often forget the other side, the other sides of health and wellness and, like mental health, emotional health, spiritual health.

But also, I think we forget that there’s a huge community side of health as well, we are impacted by our communities and our access to health care, our access to healthy food, healthy water. And so, as a nurse, I see Nurse Coaching, as an expanded view of health care in a more integrative sense, that we are impacted by a complex dynamic of things rather than just little, little things.

We are not just our hemoglobin A1C, or our blood pressure, but it is a big, dynamic whole thing, we are a whole being. And so, I think, Nurse Coaching, is, taking that into consideration, supporting the health of our clients in that lens. And supporting our communities through that lens as well. Does that make sense?

Nicole Vienneau 

Absolutely, makes sense. And, you know, seeing people as more than just a body part, or just one system, because we are all linked. I love how you express your views on community. Because community does have a huge impact on health.

Lindsay Johnson 

Mm hmm. Absolutely. In the past year, I started going through a training for somatic experiencing, and learning all about trauma, and the different types of trauma and how impacted our health and wellness is through trauma.

I don’t even mean you know, the event kind of trauma, but the historical, racial poverty, any sort of abuse that goes on for a long time, can really impact our health. It impacts our stress response. And I’ve been really, really interested in the past year on what stress does to our bodies. If it’s stuck, you know, if our bodies are stuck in those stress responses.

Nicole Vienneau 

Tell us a little bit more about what you mean by stuck.

Lindsay Johnson 

Yeah, so stuck in those stress responses. When we are confronted with a stressor, say that tiger in the jungle, right, or in our current state, it’s a virus that we can’t see. When we are confronted with that stressor, we go into that sympathetic stress response. When we have that sympathetic stress response, our heart rates go up, our blood pressures go up, our breathing increases, blood flow goes to the extremities, our reproductive and our immune systems go down because there is no need for them when we are being chased by a tiger.

And so, when we are confronted with stress for a really prolonged period of time, we end up feeling the effects of being in that stress response, that sympathetic stress response for a long time. And so I find it so interesting to relate it to our health and wellness. In that you know it our health and wellness is so much more impacted by that then I think that we have realized

Nicole Vienneau 

Yeah, yeah, and when we’re stuck. It’s difficult to prioritize to see what’s important to ourselves and to potentially move in any direction.

Lindsay Johnson 

Exactly, exactly. And right now, in our current state of being chased by this virus we cannot see, right, we’re constantly in that state.

Nicole Vienneau 

So, in your work, are you are you noticing that you’re seeing people get real stuck in situations or feeling stuck?

Lindsay Johnson 

Yes, I think we all have places where we’re stuck. You know, I think that a lot of times, that is what holds us back from, you know, choosing the food that works best for our bodies. It holds us back from making choices, which may not even be choices there. We’re stuck with coping mechanisms that have served us at one time but might not be serving us right now.

So, for example, I am also a Whole 30 certified coach. And I really try to help my clients move into what’s called Food Freedom. Whole 30 is great, but it only lasts 30 days. And so, after my clients are done with their 30 days, they go into a reintroduction phase where they reintroduce foods, to see how they react in their bodies. And following that is Food Freedom, essentially, and trying to find how to work in what they’ve learned about their bodies.

And oftentimes, stress eating, or emotional eating can be such a big part of, of working through those food issues. And so, I see a lot of my clients using food to cope very often, which can be a very valid way of coping, but often can be maladaptive for people.

Nicole Vienneau

You mentioned the Whole 30. And your approach for that. I noticed on your webpage that you offer some programs for that. Can you tell us a little bit about what you’re doing with that?

Lindsay Johnson

Sure, I offer one program called Whole 30 Whole Life, it’s an eight-week program designed to help people through the Whole 30 and into their reintroduction, and then launch them into their Food Freedom. It’s based very much in Food Freedom and trying to use what you learn about yourself during the Food Freedom during Whole30. That is what I’m offering currently.

Nicole Vienneau

Sounds interesting. So many people are focused on eating and eating the best things. But what I am really appreciating about your vision of this is the after phase, the freedom of eating with less restriction, but understanding really what is important to the individuals.

Lindsay Johnson

Exactly, because health and wellness is very individualized, right? It’s what works for some people doesn’t work for other people.

I have two clients currently that have autoimmune disease, two completely different illnesses. And so, they’re their dietary restrictions are different than mine, like I do not have the dietary restrictions that other people do. And so it’s really important to take into consideration what those dietary needs are, and balancing them with, you know, what can I add? What can I actually put into my body that’s going to serve me while not being overly restrictive?

And because it can already be overly restrictive you know, diet culture that we are steeped in oftentimes has really put that that morality onto food, you know, there’s good food and then there’s bad food. And I am not about that. I want to take away the morality around food. Food is food. If it works for you, it works for you. If it doesn’t work for you, it doesn’t work for you and trying to find a balance is what I’m all about in my program.

Nicole Vienneau

Yeah, And I see this in more areas, not just food, I mean you also just expressed about trauma yeah and potentially food can be trauma to some people.

Lindsay Johnson

It really can be you know, there’s plenty of people out there where food can be very, very much wrapped up into trauma.

Nicole Vienneau 

Thank you for sharing just a little bit about some of the programs that you’re hosting as a Nurse Coach. Let me change focus for just a little bit.

I know one of your focuses is on self-care. So, I’m curious to know what you what your definition of self-care is or what you consider it to be, and maybe some of your favorite practices.

Lindsay Johnson

Self-care is, and I love what Alicia Keys described self-care as, she has shifted it more towards soul care. And so, I see it more as soul care and caring for yourself oftentimes for your future self in just a compassionate way.

And one of the influencers I follow on Tik Tok @domesticblisters talks about how you can care for yourself without caring about yourself, which really helps me in those moments where, you know, I’m feeling self-critical or feeling that self-doubt, I can still care for myself. And oftentimes self-love will follow.

And so, what self-care that I do, I’m fairly religious about myself care. My, my biggest keystone habit that I really am reliant on is getting enough sleep, so I go to bed early. Particularly because I have children, it’s important to me.  I move my body every day, whether it’s cardio on my Peloton, or it’s very light yoga, at the end of the day.  Eating food that makes me happy, whether it’s chocolate, or a Whole 30 meal. That, to me is self-care, and not feeling guilt about that is self-care for me.

And then constantly doing my own work through therapy and working on myself, my own coping mechanisms that are no longer serving me. And working on those, and my mental health, my emotional health, that might be the most important and critical piece of self-care that I do for myself.

Nicole Vienneau

When you expressed Alicia Keys, soul care, all that you just described was that.  It’s your, whole being, it’s not just one little piece of it, it’s all of you.

Lindsay Johnson 

Yes, exactly. And as we’re on the subject of self-care, I saw this on Instagram the other day.  Self-care without the community aspect, is just self-optimization, right?

If we’re doing self-care, so that we can care for other beings and impact our own communities. That is the important part of self-care. And so, my version of self-care is caring for myself so that I can show up as the mom I want to be for my kids. It is my version of self-care so that I can show up as the Nurse Coach that I want to be for my community. Yeah, so I just wanted to add that in that it’s important to remember that our self-care is not just about ourselves.

Nicole Vienneau

Right? It’s an extension. When you think back to your time in the ICU where you mentioned you had gotten burned out, can you compare yourself, and not in a critical way, but for nurses out there who are feeling burned out, what is the difference? What do you think, or what transpired for you in that journey?

Lindsay Johnson

Boundaries.  And, and not just saying no, when they call to have you come in on your day off, I did that plenty. But I think having those boundaries, emotionally as well. That my worth as a Nurse and a human being is not made up of showing up at work, my worth goes beyond what I do.

I learned how to do more self-care. Sometime in the middle of all of that, you know, I had massive back pain. My IBS was out of control. And I learned how to work on that. I got out of the bedside, and shifted what my life looked like. But that only went so far.  My self-care needed to go deeper. And work on that. The inner self-talk and the perfectionism, that I think, are unfortunately, our profession is plagued with.

I think that nurses over identify with the giving with self-sacrifice, and there is a way to give without self-sacrifice. In fact, we can show up better in our lives, in impacting our community, when we take care of ourselves. So, taking care of myself was a lot more than fixing my back pain and my diet, it was a lot deeper than that, and finding a self-worth beyond what I do on a daily basis was really important.

Nicole Vienneau 

And the willingness to self-explore.

Lindsay Johnson

Yes, the willingness to self-explore, and the willingness to maybe find a new profession.

A new career in Nursing was a change as well. What else? Learning how to, deal with stress daily, as well. This was incredibly important, especially becoming a mother.  Learning how to get because it was all it was that all over again, right. It was it was the “Pinterest parenting”. Everything needs to be perfect kind of thing. And figuring out how I can be and how I can feel good enough, just as I am.

Nicole Vienneau 

Beautifully, beautifully said. And of course, we know as Nurse Coaches that everyone will do this on their own, in their own way, and on their own journey.

Lindsay Johnson

Yes.

Nicole Vienneau 

And a Nurse Coach is a beautiful support for that.

Lindsay Johnson

Yeah, that’s what I love about Nurse Coaching, being able to support and watch my own clients. Build that, that ‘enoughness’ within themselves.

Nicole Vienneau 

I love that enough. Yes.

So, tell me because you mentioned communities, is that is a big focus for you. And I noticed you have The Mom Group.

Lindsay Johnson 

Yes, I’m moving away from that.

Nicole Vienneau 

Okay, yes,

Lindsay Johnson 

I think we teach what we what we need. And so that came out of my immediate postpartum period of, you know, having two kids.

And so, I started working with moms and mom burnout, you know, but I think as I grow in my Nurse Coaching role I want to focus more on the caregivers of the world.

And so that encompasses moms, of course, but I think it also encompasses nurses, and anybody in the giving professions. Because I think that we do have a tendency as the giving type people like myself included, to have that idea that caring for other people means it’s going to be at an expense of myself. And so that’s, that’s been my goal that’s evolved over the past couple of years is to help the givers prioritize their needs, also, so that they can give to others.

Nicole Vienneau 

Yeah, yeah. Wonderful. I see your whole career, you know, as an evolution.  Continuously evolving. And I really appreciate that you do what you need at the time.  Like how you said you needed support, and so part of your work became supporting others who need the support too. Yes?

Lindsay Johnson 

Yeah. And you see how that works. Right?

Nicole Vienneau 

Right. It was calling to you, it was a passion and you felt you needed to follow it.

Lindsay Johnson 

Mm hmm. Yes.

Nicole Vienneau 

Wonderful. So, let’s, do a fun question.

Lindsay Johnson 

Okay.

Nicole Vienneau 

Okay. I think it’s fun because I always imagine what mine would say about this. So how would your parents describe what you do for a living?

Lindsay Johnson 

I think my mom has described to me as a life coach. I don’t know if they know what I do. To be completely honest. Something around, you know, helping people eat better. And, and life coaching, I think is probably what they would describe me as doing.

Nicole Vienneau 

You know, some of us Nurse Coaches have a little bit of difficulty describing what it is we do.

Lindsay Johnson 

Yeah, I’ve been struggling with that for two years.

Nicole Vienneau 

Why do you think that is?

Lindsay Johnson 

Oh, I think it’s hard to define something that is so holistic. I am a big picture person. I mean, I see the details, of course, but I’m a big picture person. I’m an integrative person. And so, like health is a lot bigger than one little thing. And so, I think it’s, it’s hard to narrow that down and describe us as one thing, like wellness is a very large thing.

Nicole Vienneau 

It is, it is, it is. And the bottom line is, I was talking to my husband about this, he said, ‘you just go around, and you help people feel better’.

Lindsay Johnson 

See, I like that definition. I help people feel better, whatever that looks like for that person.

Nicole Vienneau 

Exactly. The individuality of that. And whether that is food, or whether that is a movement or whether that is talking about trauma, or you know, all the beautiful things that that you are incorporating into your practice.

Lindsay Johnson 

Yes, absolutely.

Nicole Vienneau 

And then beyond that, right. Beyond that. Environment, community. Yes. self-care, soul care. Awesome. Yeah, I always wonder why my mom still doesn’t know what exactly I do. But that’s okay. (laugh)

Lindsay Johnson 

Yeah, yeah. (laugh)

Nicole Vienneau 

Let’s see. One other fun question. So, if all barriers and constraints could be removed, what kind of project would you do?

Lindsay Johnson 

Well, I’m probably going to do it anyway.

If all barriers were gone, I would love to do a group program around burnout. Helping the caregivers with burnout. It’s still in the works in my head. It’s much like trying to define Nurse Coaching, trying to define exactly what I want to do with this program is difficult. But I would love to have a small group of 10 to 15 people to just work with in a group setting for probably eight weeks.

Nicole Vienneau 

Sounds lovely. In the words of international Nurse Coach Association and Integrative Nurse Coach™ Academy, co-director, Barbie Dossey, “…sometimes you don’t have all the answers. You just know you need to begin”.

Lindsay Johnson 

Oh, I like that. Yes. And I think that that’s exactly what needs to happen. Just need to start.

Nicole Vienneau 

Yeah. And I know given your history of all the things you’ve done and all the things that you were doing that this is going to come to fruition for you.  Yes!

I know that you’re doing some programs in your community as well are you are doing some online things. Were you doing some support groups or webinars or something like that?

Lindsay Johnson 

This past weekend, I hosted a free event called, burned out eight assess essential resiliency strategies during difficult times. That was great. I really love doing that I’m looking to do a program based on those eight essential strategies.

I attempted a Food Freedom membership, I am taking a pause on that now, because I don’t know exactly what that will look like going forward, I want it to be sustainable for me, and it’s just me doing the work. My clients in that pilot program have shown so much improvement in their own relationship with food over the past three months.

And I love that, so it was kind of painful for me to stop it. But it wasn’t necessarily working for my life. And so, I’m pausing it for a moment, seeing where to go from here with that.

Obviously, I do private coaching, that hasn’t been any different from the last couple of years. I think those are the programs that I’ve been working on lately.

Nicole Vienneau

I really appreciate that as an entrepreneur, we must continuously assess and reassess what is working for us. And you mentioned boundaries, and part of that is recognizing our boundaries, and really what is and what isn’t going to be the best way for us to make a living and affect people’s lives. So, you are shifting programs and doing what is inspiring.

Lindsay Johnson 

Right, exactly. And you said it… if it’s inspiring me or not. And I think there were moments that the program was inspiring to me. But trying to find a way forward that truly works for me is the challenge, right?

Nicole Vienneau 

So, let’s do two more questions. Where do you see Nurse Coaching leading to? Or leading you?

Lindsay Johnson 

How about where would I like it to lead?

Nicole Vienneau 

Sure, that sounds good,

Lindsay Johnson 

I would love for it to lead to increased health among nurses. I would really love to see all nurses learning this, this coaching technique. I mean, we all know it inherently, but this puts vocabulary and organization to it. And I think that having that those coaching skills and the coaching intuition can be impactful for patients.

At the bedside, and obviously beyond. I would love to see Nurse Coaches taking a larger role in community health, public health efforts. I think public health is probably the next frontier for Nurse Coaches.  I would love to see Nurse Coaches in public health.

Nicole Vienneau 

So, tell us where you got your Nurse Coach certification. What school did you go to?

Lindsay Johnson 

I went to the international Nurse Coach Association.

Nicole

You’re part of a conglomeration of nurses who have undergone this training. You know, you’re right. We’re putting vocabulary and systems into place for nurses to do this work.

And I agree every Nurse should take this training because for me, it greatly impacted my life.

Lindsay Johnson 

Me too! I think in ways I don’t even know and understand quite yet. It really impacted the way that I see Nursing in general, in my career of choice from, you know, back whenever I changed my major, right, it just completely shifted all of that.

Nicole Vienneau  

Great, so tell us where we can find you.

Lindsay Johnson 

Okay, um, I’m doing some rebranding in the next couple of months.

But now you can reach me at Lindsay that’s Lindsay@catalina-wellness.com. That’s my email address. My website is www.catalina-wellness.com you can find me at my Instagram where I’m at most of the time. More than anything. It’s Lindsay MC Johnson @lindsaymcjohnson- That’s where I do a lot of my work with my community. But yes, mostly My website is there. I’m it will be shifting over to my name very shortly.

Nicole Vienneau 

That’s exciting! Some new stuff coming. Changes again, evolution.

Lindsay Johnson 

Yes. More evolution as I try to figure out who I am.

Nicole Vienneau 

Yeah. Well, you’ve already impacted so many people in such a positive way.

Lindsay Johnson 

I hope so. That’s my goal.

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