Psilocybin, Presence & the Power of Nursing: Anna Desmarais BSN, RN, HWNC-BC

Psilocybin, Presence & the Power of Nursing: Anna Desmarais BSN, RN, HWNC-BC Transcript

Nicole Vienneau  00:00

Welcome, everyone, to the Integrative Nurse Coaches in ACTION! podcast. My name is Nicole Vienneau. I am your host, and I’m also a board certified integrative Nurse coach, and I have the pleasure to interview amazing Nurses from all over the world, and today is no exception. 

In fact, I was so enjoying our pre-recording conversation with our next guest, who is lighting up the world with all of the things that she is doing. And it was just so fun to just laugh and talk about all things Nurse coaching. 

So all of our Nurse coaches, our integrative Nurse coaches out there who listen to this podcast, get on a call with a with a dear friend, and have some conversations about what you’re doing in the world, related to Nurse coaching and beyond, how you’re shifting and bringing light into the world. 

Okay, so today we have Anna Desmarais, and she is all the way from Boulder, Colorado. And she is an integrative Nurse, she’s a holistic health and life coach, and she’s also a licensed psychedelic facilitator. So we are going to have a fantastic conversation. So but before we get into that, let’s have Anna come on and say hi.

Anna Desmarais  01:18

Hello! I love that intro. Thank you. So wonderful to be here and so nice to meet you finally, Nicole.

Nicole Vienneau  01:26

So wonderful to meet you too, and now we get to introduce you to all of our listeners. So that’s going to be really fun and exciting, and will help us all to see the depth and the width of our abilities as Nurses and as Nurse coaches, and how we’re using our skills in the world today. Okay, so we’d love to take a trip down history lane, and we love to know a little bit more about you as to like how you even discovered you wanted to be a Nurse.

Anna Desmarais  01:55

Yeah, great question. So, so actually, I became a Nurse later in life. I didn’t actually go to Nursing school until I was 40, and so I did an accelerated program, because I knew this is exactly what I wanted to do. But going back a little bit further—  So I was living in South Korea, and I was running a martial arts yoga and fitness center, and I was figuring out my next steps in life, because I knew that I wanted to return back home to the US. 

I’d been in Korea for 16 years already. I knew I wanted to return back home to the US, but I wasn’t exactly sure what I wanted to do. So as I sat with that, I was like, what actually brings me joy? What lights me up? What do I love about what it is that I’m doing now? And it really was just helping people get healthy, seeing people reach their full potential. 

And I had also had a health scare of my own, which landed me in the ER. And I realized, wow, I thought I was healthy, but our bodies are crazy, you know. And I wanted to learn more about our, you know, how our health and how our bodies work. And so I thought, okay, I love to see people get healthy. I’m really interested in medical science. You know, I had already gone down the holistic route. 

While I was in Korea, I was lucky to have access to like, Eastern medicine and more holistic medicine. So I learned a lot about that, but then I wanted to learn more about Western medicine and learn just everything that I could. And so I decided maybe I should just become a Nurse. And so I started researching what the possibilities were, how you become a Nurse. 

I found out about accelerated programs. I found out that I could do all my prerequisites online beforehand, while I was still working in Korea. So that’s what I did. And so I ended up getting accepted to a couple places, and then I decided on University of Miami. So I moved from Korea to Miami in 2017. It was quite a shift. 

And so I started Nursing school there, and I did the accelerated program, which is 12 months, which was 12 months of absolute intensity. But I wouldn’t do it any other way, because I knew that’s what I wanted to do. And I just went in with this, like, laser sharp focus. And so I finished the program. I graduated in 2018. 

My very last clinical rotation was in the ER, and up until then, I wasn’t sure which field of Nursing I wanted to go into. None of were resonating with me so far. And I was thinking, oh my gosh, do I even want to be a Nurse? And so I finally did my last clinical rotation in the ER, and I fell in love. I was like, this is my place. And so I knew when I graduated I wanted to work in the ER. 

However, it’s really hard to get a job as a new grad in the ER. So I was like, What can I do in the meantime? And I had remembered, it was like a fair, a job fair at the university, and there was a table there of corrections Nurses, and they said, “Corrections is Nurses’ best kept secret.” 

And I’m like, Really? Tell me more. So they gave me their card, and I said, you know, I need a job. I need something. Like, let me just call this number. And so I ended up calling, and I ended up… So my first real job out of Nursing school was in a state prison in Florida. And so honestly, I loved that job. I learned so much, not just about Nursing. 

I mean, because you’re very independent in there. I learned so much about Nursing, but also about humanity. You know, I just… just from talking to these inmates, you know, who were my patients, just learning so much about the depths of humanity. And so I loved that job, and I didn’t really want to leave it, but I knew I wanted to move into the ER. 

And so I was able to finally find a residency program in an ER in South Florida. And so it’s one of those programs where you sign a contract for two years and they train you on the job. And so I had all this wonderful training. Started working in the ER, and not long after that was the pandemic, right? And so now I’m stuck in a contract in the ER in Florida during the pandemic, and it was crazy. 

That’s the only word that I can use to describe that. So a lot of burnout, a lot of moral injury, all of those things that you know, we experienced during the pandemic, I would say trauma as well. There was… it was… it was really heavy. And so I knew that I didn’t want to stay at the bedside for very much longer, at least not in the ER. 

I didn’t know what I wanted to do next, because I had moved all the way back to the US, did all these things. You know, and it’s just, I was like, I can’t, I can’t, I just, I need to do something else. So that’s when I started researching what my next steps could be. And that’s what led me to, finding out about Nurse coaching. 

And serendipitously, I think I saw an advertisement on Facebook or something like that, and I was like, let me learn more about this. And I was reading the description, I’m like, This is what I want to do. Because the thing that I didn’t like about working in the ER, was that I didn’t get to spend any time with the patients, right? You didn’t get to follow up with them. 

I had no idea what happened to them afterwards, you know. And then I couldn’t educate them, you know, all of this preventive lifestyle medicine that we know about, all this holistic Nursing that we learned about in Nursing school, we couldn’t share any of that with them, because there just wasn’t time. And I didn’t like that, you know, because I knew that… I knew there was a better way. 

And so when I found out about holistic Nursing and Nurse coaching, I was like, I gotta jump on this. So that was kind of my plan B, my way out of bedside Nursing, as I was looking into that. So that’s kind of what led me to INCA.

Nicole Vienneau  07:34

Yes, and what an amazing history. I mean, you had so much history having Nursing as a second career. So already having all of that foundational knowledge and wisdom of living life and running, you said, a martial arts and yoga studio. I mean all of those skills to really support you as you then decide, okay, I’m going to be, I’m going to go into Nursing school, do an accelerated program. 

Oh my gosh. Girl, so hard. It’s so hard, so much dedication to, you know, to advancing your own education and career, and all that dedication to that. And then all your years in Asia and learning about that culture, to support you as you move into this next phase of your life, and then moving to Miami, girl. 

That’s like a whole thing. I love that, though, like all those experiences there and correctional Nursing and then ED and learning about that. And then, of course, all of the experiences within the time of covid and all of that, and how that shapes you as you move into this next phase. And then discovering Nurse coaching. So did you take the Nurse coaching program as you were doing your emergency room work?

Anna Desmarais  08:52

Yeah, so I had started it then. And then I just, so basically, I had had a very, very healing experience with plant medicine there. I don’t know if you remember that the borders were all closed during the pandemic, but there was one country that was open, Mexico still let us in. So I was able to travel to Mexico and have a very healing experience with plant medicine. 

And it kind of… that was kind of the catalyst for reminding me about the therapeutic power of these medicines and it was, it was a whole, you know, just realization that the environment that I was in was not the environment that I needed to be in. It was not where I belonged, you know, because I had entered Nursing, because I love to see people, to see people heal, but I wasn’t getting to see that in the environment I was in. 

You know, maybe we were saving a life. You know, it was hectic, it was chaos. It was just not good for my nervous system and so that was kind of… that planted the seed for where I am now. Was having my own personal healing experience that helped me integrate everything that I was experiencing from the pandemic and all of that moral injury and burnout and all of that. 

And so I realized that I did not want to be at the bedside anymore. That kind of cemented it for me. And so I kind of took a break, which was meant to be a sabbatical. At this time, I had finally exited that contract in the ER, and I became a travel Nurse. And so I was in California at this time. So I moved to California, and I was in Southern California, and I decided to take a break, a quote, unquote sabbatical from the bedside. 

And I jumped in my car, I was in San Diego, and put my belongings and my cat in the car, and we drove down to Mexico. And so I drove, I think it was like 24 hours over three or four days, down the coast of Mexico, and I landed in a beach town on the Pacific coast, and that is where I decided that I was going to do the rest of my healing and figure out my next steps. 

And so it was there that I actually finished my INCA program, knowing that from there I wanted to go into Nurse coaching or something along those lines after that. And so that’s how I ended up in Mexico. And while I was finishing that up, I took on a telehealth job. I was working in chronic pain management and working holistically with patients. 

And so I was already kind of being able to use what I was learning from the INCA program to work with patients who were in chronic pain, you know, because their medications were not really working. So I was there more as a coach and I realized that’s what taught me that just holding space for people is hugely therapeutic. You know, they were in this immense pain, suffering mentally, psychologically. 

And so I was there just to listen to them and, you know, validate their experience and maybe offer some other therapeutic modalities. And they would tell me time and time again, like, gosh, it’s so good to have somebody listen to me. It’s so and, you know, they’d be crying, and it’s just like, it’s just to be able to have somebody listen to me and not judge me or tell me what to do or try to fix things. 

You know, it was really, really valuable for them. And so that was really, for me, invaluable experience to know that Nurse coaching is something that is needed in the space. So and during that time, I also started working with some curanderos locally, so some local healers, and to be able to learn more about plant medicine healing, and learn more about, you know, indigenous ways of healing. 

And so was very much immersed in that world, and was very fortunate to be able to work with people that were coming down to Mexico in ceremony, in the retreat space. And so I learned a ton about plant medicine, but also indigenous ways, indigenous healings, like all that ancient wisdom, I deepened my own spiritual practice. 

And, yeah, and so that’s what led me to really decide I am never working in a hospital again. I knew that for sure that is not for me. It’s not, it’s just it, yeah, it just didn’t, it didn’t feel right from the beginning and I just had to kind of admit that to myself, it’s like that’s just not where I want to be. But the beauty of Nursing is that we have so many options. So I said, let me just take this time to see what options there are.

Nicole Vienneau  13:13

Yes, I agree. I mean, we would never know that it was not for us until we try it, and all of those things that we learn and realize as we’re going through it, all the wisdom we gain, the conversations we have, all of that is not for naught. I mean, it’s now supporting us into the next journey that we are deciding to take. 

Yeah and yeah, I agree. Like Nurses don’t need to feel like we’re ever stuck anywhere. There’s so many avenues and pathways that we could go down to really do the things that are lighting us up. What better way to do it than to explore like you’re doing? I’m like, Ooh, I want to come with you and explore all these things too.

Anna Desmarais  13:56

I mean, I’m glad, I’m glad I tried all of that. You know, in the end, I think working in the ER, was absolutely critical experience, you know. So now I feel very comfortable in these high acuity situations, you know? I feel like, like nothing really phases me anymore. After you work in a prison and the ER nothing bothers you. I’m cool. I think that’s really helpful for any situation that you’re in in life, you know. But of course, in the work that I’m doing now, which I’m sure we’ll get to.

Nicole Vienneau  14:29

Yes, we will. We will get to that. Yes. And I was remembering that on our podcast, we have a guest who did a lot of work with a curandero, and so listeners, I’m going to put that into our show notes so you can listen to her work, because it’s fascinating, and it just links up all of these holistic practices that we think of in the Western world, you know, linking it back to ancestors and plants and the things of the earth to release. And you know more than I, I only know a little little smidge, but I’ll put that into our show notes so you can and listeners can listen to that too. 

Anna Desmarais  15:11

Oh, I’m so glad that you have that, to link that, because I mean that I was just going to say, that’s a whole other podcast if I start going and talking about that kind of stuff, but you already have a podcast. 

Nicole Vienneau  15:20

Yeah. And I’m spacing on her name, it’ll probably come to me midway, and I’ll shout it out. Yes. Okay, so before we go into what you’re doing now, I’d love to have you share with our listeners, like, what’s one little nugget that you received when you took the INCA training, the Integrative Nurse Coach Academy’s Nurse Coaching program?

Anna Desmarais  15:46

I would have to say, I think the thing that still sticks with me is just holding space and how therapeutic that is, that I don’t have to fix, I don’t have to talk, I don’t have to do anything except be really present. That was a concept that I didn’t… was not familiar to me. I didn’t know that, you know? 

And so now that I’ve actually put that into practice, and I’m like, Whoa, yeah, this is very, very healing. And now I notice that when people do it for me as well, when somebody is really present and holding space for me, it’s like, it’s such an honor, you know? 

I’m like, Wow, this feels really, really good, that I feel seen, I feel heard. And that is so therapeutic. And I think that what was so wonderful about INCA was that we were able to practice that, you know, we did that with our own pro bono clients. And I remember we had to record ourselves, and I remember watching the recording and going, God, I’m talking too much. 

You don’t think so, you know, when you’re actually in the session, you think that you’re holding space, you think that you’re listening, but then when you play back the recording, you realize I’m not giving them as much time as I thought I was. And, you know, and just learning the power of the pause, you know, it’s like, just, do we have to always fill up space? 

We don’t, you know, sometimes giving that moment of silence gives the other person an opportunity to be like, you know, you know, something else might come to mind, and that could be a really transformational moment for them, but if we’re constantly filling it with space, then they never get that opportunity. I think that, honestly, was one of my biggest takeaways.

Nicole Vienneau  17:22

I think that is mine as well. Yeah, and I see it play out now all the time, and the idea that I don’t need to fix everything because I can’t, how can I do it? 

Anna Desmarais  17:37

Oh, yay! Your orange cat came in.

Nicole Vienneau  17:46

If you’re listening on the podcast, you won’t see, but we… Anna has an orange kitty and I have an orange kitty, and they’re both on the video.

Anna Desmarais  17:55

They’re trying to find each other through the screen. That was funny.

Nicole Vienneau  17:58

Yeah, that’s why mine is like, keeps pacing back and forth. He’s like, I know she’s there. I love cats, and they’re so therapeutic in themselves. Yes, okay, so yes, holding space like just sitting with your cat.

Anna Desmarais  18:12

Oh, absolutely, yeah, absolutely. My cat is one of my best space holders.

Nicole Vienneau  18:17

Exactly, exactly. Yeah. Okay, yes, it makes me take a breath. Okay, so now I would love to… so thank you for sharing that part about holding space and being present and what that even means, and not trying to fill the space with all of our stuff in our to do list, right? 

Yeah, I found that like… and I still do this. I catch myself now, though, I catch myself like, oh, here you’re trying to fix somebody. Or I see plain as day that if they just did x, y, z, that it would fix all their problems. But that doesn’t matter, what I think. It doesn’t matter. And it’s more what the person thinks is important to them, not what I think. Yeah, hard lesson, yeah.

Anna Desmarais  19:09

I didn’t realize how much I was fixing, you know, offering advice, you know, thinking that I was trying to help, like the intentions were good, but yeah, the more that I work with clients, and the more that I live my life, you know, after having done INCA, I realized that, like it’s… they’re going to make their own decisions and come to their own conclusions. 

The only thing I can do is listen and maybe ask questions that will help them to come to their own conclusions and help them really kind of discern, you know, what it is that they’re actually feeling, maybe that can be helpful, but at the end of the day, like actually giving advice, unless they’re explicitly asking for it, then I’ll try to hold back a little bit because they’re, yeah, they’re not going to listen anyway. 

Nicole Vienneau  19:53

Yeah. And then it’s just wasted space too. You know, wasted voice, wasted ideas, yeah. So. But all is good. We’re learning as we go. And I find, you know, I go back to some old patterns, and then I catch myself, and then I just give myself grace and self compassion, and then like, Oh, you’re doing that. Okay, it’s all right, let’s move on. 

Anna Desmarais  20:12

Yeah. I honestly think that the INCA program changed my life in a lot of ways, and I tell that to people and, you know, and in the work that I do now, in the psychedelic facilitation space, people are like, how do you feel like was good preparation for you? And I said that INCA program was great preparation for me, you know, to be able to learn how to hold space and to deeply listen to people and really regulate with them and just be present. That’s so important.

Nicole Vienneau  20:39

Very important. Okay, so now we’re at the phase where you, you know, you graduated from the INCA program, and then you were trying to, okay, now, what do I do? What were your next steps? And how are you using all of your skills today?

Anna Desmarais  20:55

Yeah, so, so I was like, Okay, I guess now I’m a Nurse coach, you know, I graduated from the INCA programs, like, alright, I added the letters to my name, you know, I had to actually travel back up to the US to take the exam before I could add the letters. And then a year later…. So that’s when I became NC-BC. 

And the following year, or almost a year later, I went back up. I was still living in Mexico, and, you know, you have to take the exam in the US. So I went back up almost a year later to do the other exam for holistic Nursing, and that’s when I added the other two letters, HW. But in the meantime, I was trying to figure out how to become a Nurse coach. But it was really just me. 

It was me trying to figure out what my niche was, which I still haven’t figured out, which is fine. I finally, you know, it really wasn’t until this year where I said to myself, I don’t have a niche, and that’s okay. That is okay. And I said, I’m sick of trying to decide and thinking, Oh, I’m some sort of failure, because I haven’t figured out my niche yet. 

You know, I was working with women in midlife for a while, and I really enjoyed that, but I just felt limited. Because I felt like, you know, sometimes somebody would approach me and say, like, Hey, can you help me? I’m like, Yeah, of course. It may be a male in his 70s, right? But that lit me up as well, working with him. And so yeah, I didn’t want to have to limit myself anymore. 

So I said, You know what? I don’t have a niche and that’s okay, and it’s okay. So yeah, so a lot of that time was trying to figure out what my niche was and who, you know, who I wanted to work with, and how to market and how to promote myself and find clients and all that. And it was really a lot of experimentation, a lot of that. 

But meanwhile, I was still in Mexico and still doing the work with the ceremonial work and retreat work, and I absolutely love that. And then that chronic pain management company that I was working for in telehealth, they ended up closing down. This was a startup, that happens. And so all of a sudden I was out of my stable job. 

And so I was like, Oh, well, maybe this is a push for me to really go full force and, you know, head first into Nurse coaching, you know. So I tried to do that for a little while, and it was just, I wasn’t really 100% sure if I felt comfortable, you know, always hustling, because that’s the thing is, like I felt like I was always hustling. So I just said, you know, maybe, maybe I need to look for something else in the meantime, so I don’t feel this stress. You know, I didn’t want to feel that. 

And I had gotten an email from another startup company that I had applied for, gosh knows when, perfect timing. And they’re like, Hey, we’re hiring. I was like, Oh, well, perfect timing, because I’m looking for a job. And, yeah, I interviewed with them. It was like, right away, it was a match. It was very much aligned. And so now I’m still working for them, like, a year and a half or so later. 

And this is also a telehealth company that is actually run by… it’s a Nurse led model, and it is basically, in my view, trying to change the face of healthcare. So we are working with patients, but we are utilizing our coaching skills, and we are… so I’m mostly working with veterans and with individuals with Alzheimer’s or dementia and their caregivers, and I absolutely love it, and I’m 100% using my Nurse coaching skills in this role. 

Because we meet with them monthly, and it’s kind of the same thing as I was describing before with the chronic pain management, where I’m, you know, I’m listening to them, holding space, because as a caregiver for a loved one with Alzheimer’s or dementia, it’s a really, really tough job. And, you know, it’s 24/7 and it’s hard, you know. 

And a lot of them are really suffering with their mental health and all of that, and so kind of find, and found myself in that same space where I’m just, you know, I’m listening and, you know, offering some to hold space for them, and then also giving some coaching where it’s needed, you know, and then if needed, also giving, of course, Nursing advice as well, you know, some medical advice. 

But yeah, I love that, because I get to meet with them monthly. And follow them on their journey. And I feel like they’re, you know, they’re my clients, they’re my patients, and so, I’m doing… so I started doing that in Mexico as well. And then I went to visit family in the US, and I had heard of all these things happening in the psychedelic field in, you know, north of the border, because I was doing that work south of the border. 

And then I heard that things, you know, the legal pathways were opening up. They had already opened up in Oregon, and they had just opened up in Colorado. And so I had heard that this was happening. And I think there was a suggestion by somebody like, why don’t you look into maybe doing this work in the US? And I’m like, I don’t know if I want to do it under the legal model. 

I don’t know what that’s going to look like. You know, I love doing the ceremonial work. I don’t know if I want to do it this way, but I said, let me give it a chance. And so I ended up applying to a program for accelerated Colorado licensure. Finished the program. Suddenly, I have a license to practice as a psilocybin facilitator in Colorado. 

So I said, You know what, I’ve been thinking about moving back up into the US, like, maybe that’s my next step. I’ve kind of just let everything lead me. And so that’s why I ended up moving to Colorado last year. And so I moved to Colorado in July of last year. I had, I got my license already, but because it’s such a new field in Colorado, there weren’t many healing centers. 

There were a couple only open. So it took a while for the healing centers that hired me to get their license to operate. So in the meantime, I couldn’t work, and so that has really only been happening for a few months now, where I’ve been working as a licensed psilocybin facilitator under the regulated model in Colorado, and I absolutely love it. This is exactly where I’m meant to be. I am still working part time as a Nurse in that for that telehealth company, but I’m doing them both.

Nicole Vienneau  26:56

Nice. I love this journey. I love your journey, and it’s a reminder of all of the little nooks and crannies and the pathways that we take to follow our dreams, to follow our thoughts, or what is leading us and listening to that, instead of staying in the same old, doing it because we’re so focused on the paycheck and the stability of that, but it’s not feeding our souls. 

And so you’re, you know, just allowing, allowing things to happen for you, right? It’s for you. Yes. Okay, so tell us, maybe a day in the life of like, what is this? Psilocybin? A licensed psilocybin? Tell me the word… a licensed psilocybin facilitator, facilitator. I did have that in my mind. A licensed psilocybin facilitator. What do you do?

Anna Desmarais  27:48

Yeah, so, well, in Colorado, we’re known as natural medicine facilitators. But, you know, people are, like, getting a little bit confused, like, what kind of natural medicine? And then I say mushrooms, and they’re like, oh, like shiitake? Well, not exactly. 

So how it works in the Colorado regulated model is, you know, clients will have to be 21 or older, and they basically… we, as facilitators, work out of healing centers under the regulated model. And so a healing center has to have a special license where we conduct these sessions. 

So when we are matched with clients, we do an intake and a screening, and we just look out for any red flags that might tell us that this might not be the right therapy for them at this time, we look at the medications that they’re taking, we look at their medical history, their psychiatric history, and we, you know, we do all of that. If needed, we will pull in clinicians to clear them, medically clear them. 

You know, if there are any behavioral health issues that are raised, any medications that maybe need to be adjusted beforehand, that’s all done in conjunction with their own providers or with another clinician that’s brought in. And then we do preparation. So preparation is really just the facilitator and the client meeting to hone in on their intentions, to maybe unpack any things that need to be unpacked before the session, to really just, you know, make them feel comfortable going into it. 

Like, to let them know what to expect, but also, also to let them know to expect the unexpected, because psychedelics don’t always work in a very linear fashion, right? They’ll show you what you need to see, not always what you want to see. So just to be prepared for any challenging experiences that might come up, you know, teach them some nervous system regulation techniques and breathing techniques, just to help them be more open to the experience and just to help them feel safe. 

That’s really the most important thing, is to go into this feeling safe. And so that’s the preparation period. Is just, you know, trying our best to help them feel comfortable and safe. And then we have our administration day, or sometimes known as journey day or the ceremony. And that usually starts in the morning. They’ll have the mushrooms, and it lasts about five or six hours, average, sometimes less, sometimes more. 

The dose is decided beforehand, depending on what the client’s desired outcomes are like, or their experience, or what medications they’re on, because some medications do blunt the experience, and so you might have to adjust the dose accordingly. And so I think this is where a lot of you know… as a Nurse, I feel like I have an advantage in this space, because I understand pharmacology. 

I understand, you know, what signs and symptoms to look out for that might indicate some sort of medical or even psychiatric emergency. I understand, you know, how the psilocybin might interact with certain medications, or how it might affect you cardiovascularly. You know, there’s all kinds of things that go into it that I feel like as a Nurse, like, oh yeah, we already know this stuff. 

You know, we just have to learn. It’s just like learning about a different medication, except we’re learning about psilocybin. That’s it. So I feel really… I felt already very comfortable moving into this space as a Nurse, but then also as a Nurse coach, because we’re not there to educate or fix or treat during the session, we’re really there to hold space. 

That’s our job during the actual administration session, to make them feel safe, to help co-regulate the nervous system, you know, if anything challenging comes up, to be there for them as support, you know, and of course, to keep an eye out for anything that might indicate any sort of emergency, right? 

So, luckily, that’s extremely rare, and especially in the regulated model, but we, you know, we would know what to look out for, and we would recognize those signs. So, yeah, so that’s the administration day, and that a whole lot happens that day. It doesn’t look like it, but a lot is happening, right? A lot of transformation happening on the inside. And yeah. And then we follow up with integration. 

So we usually do a couple sessions with the client. We talk about, you know, we talk about their experience, you know, any revelations that they might have had, anything that they want to unpack, anything that they want to kind of make meaning out of, and then we help them kind of transition to be that bridge from all right, this is what you learned from the mushrooms that day. 

How do we integrate this into your daily life? And that’s how we turn it from a cool experience into something transformational for their life and so that’s kind of how all of that works, that whole process. And this is 100% legal now in Oregon and Colorado and next New Mexico. 

Nicole Vienneau  32:36

Wonderful. I was thinking back to like, years upon years upon years ago. I have an older sister, and that was… like when I was young, taking mushrooms was a thing, you know, and I was thinking as you were explaining everything, I was like, how was that different from back then? But the difference is, is that you are there to monitor, to hold space, to help the person be safe. 

And then the integration piece too. Well, first of all, you have to start with, like, the beginning, like, it’s like, why are you taking this? What are you trying to… what are you seeking? How are you going to use this experience? And, you know, what do you want to heal? Like, all of those things, like, instead of back in the day, was like, Oh, you want to take mushrooms. 

I don’t know. I didn’t do it. Listeners, it’s not me, my sister. But don’t tell her I said anything. She would just talk about it, you know. So but, and then the integration, like, what revelations did you have? How are you going to use those in your life? And how is that going to help you to transition to shift into better wholeness? Yeah, I love that.

Anna Desmarais  33:51

You know,  it’s honestly been… I’ve never seen this type of healing in the conventional healthcare system. Never. You know, it’s just so profound and so fast and so long lasting, and it’s just absolutely mind blowing every time. Not always. I need to, you know, disclaimer, it isn’t this effective for everybody, right? It’s not a magic pill or a cure all or anything like that. 

But for the people that it does work for, it’s just, you know, they say that everything they tried didn’t work, but this was it, you know, this really, really helped them. And so, it just brings me to that, you know, brings me to my soul work, which is being able to be a bridge or a facilitator, to help somebody heal, you know, and that is what lights me up. 

And to see this level of healing and transformation is just, I mean, I could never imagine this 10 years ago. You know, that we could do this legally in the United States. I just feel so blessed to be able to be a part of this, you know, at the beginning, kind of, we’re at ground zero right now, and it’s, it’s still the wild west in a lot of ways, you know, but to see it all unfold, I just really feel privileged to be a part of that. 

And so we’re seeing a lot of you know, I think, like you mentioned your sister, a lot of people are just taking mushrooms recreationally, and that’s fine. That’s great. Nothing wrong with that at all, you know, but it’s like for some people who maybe need a bigger dose, or maybe are on medications, or maybe have medical concerns or maybe don’t feel safe doing it on their own, or maybe because of stigma or legal reasons, maybe because their job. 

I mean, there’s a whole range of reasons why people wouldn’t be able to just take some mushrooms and go out into the woods, you know, and so we’re there to be that space for them. And I think that Nurses are really great in this space, because we are seeing high acuity clients, you know, people aren’t coming in for simple personal growth and spiritual explanation or exploration, and they’re not on any medications. 

They don’t have any health history. That’s pretty rare, you know, those people are usually doing it in the woods. And so, you know, to be a Nurse in the space, I think is, it’s an advantage, and it’s a really, I feel like we need more, you know, because, especially Nurses that have acute care background, because we can stay regulated even when things get challenging, even when things get a little bit crazy and that has happened recently. 

I had a client that had a very, very deep, deep emotional experience that you know was, was, I would say, quite dark and maybe even violent, and but I was able to just breathe through it and stay calm and hold space and just make sure that we were both safe. And yeah, I feel like I owe that ability to my background in the ER and in corrections.

Nicole Vienneau  36:59

Oh, absolutely. And so listeners, I don’t know if you know this, but I would love to share that the Integrative Nurse Coach Academy has a specialty course. It’s called Nursing Pathways in Psychedelic Care: Expanding the Frontiers of Holistic Healing. And it’s an online course. It’s four modules, and it goes through the safety, things to consider, different historical routes, modern applications for psychedelic medicine. 

And so I’m going to put that link into the show notes, because if you’re interested in learning more, just for yourself, I mean, as Nurses, we see a lot of people, and understanding psychedelic and plant medicine is going to support us as we are seeing those people and being able to support them better, and just for our own clinical knowledge as well. So yeah, wanted to plug that in there for our listeners too. 

Anna Desmarais  38:01

Yeah, yeah. I think it’s really important, especially Nurses that are in the ER, for example, or, you know, because you will see more and more, you know, possibly some emergencies having to do with people not doing this the correct way. You know, setting is important. 

You know, if you have any sort, you know, history of schizophrenia, for example, this is not the medicine for you, you know, but people sometimes will take it on their own, and, you know, maybe end up in the ER, because they’re having some sort of emergency. And so I think it’s important for Nurses to recognize what that looks like and how to deal with it. 

But also, I think that’s really awesome that INCA is offering that course because that wasn’t offered when I was in the program, and had it been, I would definitely would have taken it. But it’s really great to see how things are evolving, because we’re going to see it more and more with more states on the path to legalization.

Nicole Vienneau  38:54

Yeah, absolutely, yes. I’m thankful that they have the course too, because these are things where you know you want to know this information, and you don’t know where to find it, or you don’t have a credible, you want to find a credible, as Nurses, we always want credibility, right? 

So we’re finding these credible resources to learn for our own selves and for our patients, if that’s what we’re choosing and and why not do it with a with an organization that you trust? Right? Okay, so we have more to talk about, which is retreats, retreats that you’re doing. Yeah.

Anna Desmarais  39:29

Yeah. So I’m really excited, because I was doing retreats in Mexico, and I still do retreats in Mexico, but now I get to help facilitate 100% legal psilocybin retreat here in Colorado, here in Boulder. That’s going to be April, April 15th through 19th, and that’s going to be through Chariot, which is one of the healing centers that I work for. So that’s a five day psilocybin retreat. It’s going to be two ceremonies or two doses, obviously, with prep and integration and all of that. 

And so I absolutely love the retreat space, because you get to heal in community. And you know, one on one is great, absolutely. But I also see the benefits of being able to witness each other’s healing, you know, support each other in your healing, to be in ceremony together. There’s another, I think, layer that gets to get touched when you are together, community, having the medicine. 

So I just love retreats, because you get to witness that. You get to be a part of that, and you see it all play out, the whole dynamic. You know, everybody starts as strangers, but then by the end, you’re like, I love you as like one big family, and it’s so great to see that. It’s just like, so sweet. So, so, yeah, so that’s coming up in April, and so I’m excited because it’s the first one I get to do above ground in legal model.

Nicole Vienneau  40:53

Yes, that is very exciting, and shows the progression too— the progression of the importance of this work. And I love the idea of the group coaching model, right? Group coaching. So it’s like pulling that into this retreat as well, I’m sure, because our listeners, once you know, you know. 

And those of you who are thinking about Nurse coaching, I mean, once you learn the skills and tools of Nurse coaching, you don’t tend to go back to how you were before, not that it was bad, but you are just a more enhanced version of who you are, and have all these skills and tools that you can pull out at your leisure. You know when you need them, to pull them out to help facilitate the healing model. So, yes, okay. And then one more thing I wanted to bring up was, I know you have a new book.

Anna Desmarais  41:44

Yeah. So I wrote my first book. It was just published just a few months ago. I think it was like September, October, or something like that. The title is very long. I wanted to, like, describe exactly what the book was, just from the title, so hopefully you understand. It’s called The Path Back: A Holistic Nurse’s Guide to Healing from the Intersection of Science, Spirituality, and Ancient Wisdom. So hopefully that already gives you a kind of hint of what it’s all about.

Nicole Vienneau  42:17

Gosh, yeah, that resonates. That resonates, yes. Okay, so we’re going to drop two, well more links. So we’ll drop a link about your retreat into the show notes, and then also your book. So you know, we want to support fellow Nurses and and hopefully our listeners buy a book or go to the retreat or book a session with Anna.

Anna Desmarais  42:39

Please, please. I love meeting other Nurse coaches, so if anybody wants to reach out to me just to chat, you know, I’m always open, and because I know I do get a lot of people asking me, like, what is it like being a Nurse coach, and what is it like being a facilitator? 

I’m happy to answer any questions, because I know that Nurses bring so much to the table in so many different fields, in so many different ways, and it just breaks my heart to see so many getting burnt out and leaving the profession because of the way that the system is, you know, not because they don’t want to be Nurses. It’s just because of the way the system is. 

And I feel like that was a big revelation for me was, you know, after my experience in the ER and after healing from the pandemic issue, I realized that it’s not that I didn’t want to be a Nurse anymore when I left the bedside, it was that I didn’t want to be a Nurse in that system. 

And now that I’m able to be a Nurse in the way that resonates better with me, that aligns better with my values, I love being a Nurse. I wouldn’t want to be anything else. And, you know, there was a period where I thought, gosh, did I make a mistake by spending all this money for Nursing school at midlife and, you know, doing all of that. 

And I realized, now, no, that was absolutely the best decision I’ve ever made in my life. I’m almost going to get emotional about it. I love this role, and I think it’s so… it’s an honor to share this space with people in their most vulnerable moments, and in these moments where they really, really want to heal and to help support them in that is just yeah, such a… I feel like it’s the best job in the world. 

Nicole Vienneau  44:15

Yeah. I just really appreciate your bravery and your courage in seeking and taking the steps to get you to this point, you know, like you had to make all of these decisions, and you had to, you had to choose to go on the different paths. And that can be so terrifying, and it is terrifying for many of our listeners, like, I’m just not feeling like this is part of where I should be right now. 

And you know, it’s okay to make a different choice and do something that more resonates with who you are today, not 10 years ago or even a year ago, right? It’s like we can shift as humans, and we do shift as humans, and we realize, Oh, this isn’t the pathway for me anymore. And I can take that step. I can make a choice that is really going to help me to be the best and the lightest version I can be.

Anna Desmarais  45:14

Yeah, yeah. I agree. And I think that, you know, one of the things that helped me take the leap to enroll in Nursing school in the first place was I thought, well, I can sit here and think about it for a little longer. Or a year from now, I could be graduated with a Nursing license, you know, and so I feel like that’s kind of the attitude I take with everything. 

Is like, well, I can sit here and ponder it and hem and haw about it and wait until everything is optimal, you know, wait until the situation improves, or wait until I have more money, or wait until the wait, wait, wait. Or I just do it and figure it out later, you know. And I found that in my own experience anyway, just making that decision and just going for it always works out for the better, because that was my gut telling me, or my Spirit telling me, this is for you. 

That’s why it’s making you feel like you really want to do it, like if it’s a hell yeah, go for it. You know, just go for it, and you figure it out later. It will, it will always fall into place. And if it doesn’t, you’ve gained some sort of experience that will help you with whatever role it is that you take next. It always fits together, like, all these crazy things that I’ve done, all my weird careers in the past, you know, like, I had the martial arts gym, I co owned a restaurant, I was a DJ at one point. 

Like, I mean, so many random things that I’ve done, all of it makes sense. All of that was just part of building up my experience to you know what I’m doing now, and what I’m doing now is going to make sense for what I’m going to be doing five or 10 years from now, you know. So you just follow your heart, follow your gut, and I promise you it will always work out if it’s really aligned with your values. Maybe that’s woo. Maybe I’m just totally woo, but whatever.

Nicole Vienneau  47:05

We like woo. In fact, I’m reading a book. I’m reading a book right now on woo. This is really fascinating. Why Woo Woo Works.

Anna Desmarais  47:17

That’s the thing. It’s neuroscience. The thing is, it’s like when you actually dive deep into it, it’s not woo woo, all the things that we call woo, it’s all backed by science, and that’s why I love it. It’s just, yeah, manifesting, all these other terms that we use. Like, it’s neuroscience.

Nicole Vienneau  47:31

I think it’s like, woo! medicine. Like, let’s do that! Yeah.

Anna Desmarais  47:37

Yeah, yeah. Because, I mean, you know, at minimum, you’re going to have fun in the process. Right at minimum, you’re going to at least enjoy yourself.

Nicole Vienneau  47:45

That’s so true. Okay, so in our last few moments together, I always love to ask one question, and you can take, just take a breath and just let it settle, which is, what is on your heart that you would like to share with our listeners?

Anna Desmarais  48:05

What is on my heart. So my heart is telling me, and now I want to share with the listeners, that despite all the craziness that is happening in the world today, we have to hang on to hope, because I believe in the good in people, and I’m seeing all of this community gathering together. I am seeing people helping each other. I am seeing more people come together than being torn apart. 

And I want to share that we just need to keep focusing on that, because we can’t lose hope, because the minute that we lose hope, that’s when we lose, you know, not that this is a battle, but kind of is. So, yeah, so that’s what… just keep loving. Just keep loving. 

And, you know, I went to actually a really great talk last week, and it was, it was four members of the Black Panther Party, and somebody asked the question, how were you able to unite and organize so well back then? And the message was, was love and community. 

They really cared for each other, and no matter where they went in the country or internationally, they had a house to stay in. They had somebody to help, you know, give them food. And I feel like we, if we are going to come together as community, we need to love each other, and we need to express that. So that’s what, that’s what I’m feeling today.

Nicole Vienneau  49:42

Thank you for sharing what’s on your heart. 

Anna Desmarais  49:44

Thank you for asking. 

Nicole Vienneau  49:47

All right. Well, thank you so much, Anna, for bringing your wisdom and all these little pearls and nuggets that we can explore on our own and think about and see how those resonate with us as we’re going through our own journeys. 

And listeners, we have all these links to contact Anna, to check out her website, to see about the retreats, her book, all the amazing things that she’s doing, and see how that resonates with you. And you know, as always, thank you so much for being here, everyone.

Anna Desmarais  50:20

Thank you. Thank you for having me, Nicole, and thank you to all the listeners for spending time with us today.